For folks that don't like long responses, I'm sorry for the length of this one. :) But, it's getting pretty in depth and some of the comments need to be kept for context. My apologies if this is too long for you, but I feel it needs a response.
- JK wrote:
I would have to ask then what other may be questioning in their own minds reading this: why do you let some things get to you and not others? And what would it take to get past those things that bother you? Wouldn't you be more free if you could get past those things?
Some things I don't choose to get past. Not every line should be crossed. That's also the short of it. I have values and ethics and morals that I choose not to disregard. I have given oaths that I choose not to break because of my own sense of honor. These prevent me, on some things, from "getting past" what you see as things that bother me.
I am a firm believer that there just are things we are not meant to know and lines that we are not meant to cross. As for freedom....well...with freedom comes responsibility. And those that find themselves truly free, often find themselves more tightly bound by their ethics than those that are *not* truly free.
From my perspective, I'm riding high and free in my life. I soar with eagles and falcons. I don't see my "problems" the same way that you do. I don't see them as problems at all. Or something that needs to be fixed. Because they just aren't broken from my perspective.
- JKay wrote:
I am suspecting there are just some things you don't wish to face. And I am not expecting you to get into the details, just the surface.
Do you have to believe me? Nope. Not at all. Is it t all relevant to me and my life if you don't believe it? Nope. Because you have no impact on my life. Period. You're little electrons on a screen. And while those electrons may make me think, that doesn't mean that you hold the secrets to who and what I am. Nor do you know *me*.
I'm not saying this to be cruel or try to rub your nose in anything. That's just the plain facts of the matter. I have about the same impact on your life as a whole, I suspect. There was a time when my feelings could be crushed by what people said here about me and mine. I was not as strong a person then as I am now. (Partly due to the topic at hand, that being humiliation as a play style.)
- moonlight wrote:
Argentium's reasons for not doing humiliation are his own, and the two sets happen to coincide well for us. There is nothing wrong with humiliation play in and of itself. I disagree that most people know how to do it safely or well, though. I've seen *far* too many people hurt by it.
JK wrote:
Perhaps shifting the act of humiliation of oneself by others to that which is more of shock value to you and humiliation of the public would make it then easier for you to experience humiliation of you later
I've said in the past that some of the things that you do in public I consider nonconsensual, and some of this is due to this very reason. I honestly *don't* believe that what I do is anyone else's business. They can either accept me as I am as they see me or not. I don't go out of my way to shove it in their faces, nor do I hide what I do. If they see it, they do. If they don't see it, then they don't.
This being the case, I don't see the value in shocking me by humiliating someone else. I am just as uncomfortable in seeing someone *ELSE* humiliated as I am in being humiliated. Because it *CAN* be damaging to another person. This is where I view your playing in front of the mundanes nonconsensual. You don't know their minds, yet you wouldn't feel the least guilt in humiliating them if it was a part of your play.
- JK wrote:
But do they have to or is it more about you Master that can do it - that is make it happen?
- JK wrote:
And aren't you really limiting yourself by somewhat restricting how much to let go to then seeing what will happen?
Some people, like Argentium, have carte blanche (I hope I spelled that right). Some people get to only flog me. Some people don't get to come near me with a ten foot pole. I don't see this as being restrictive at all. I see it as being given the ultimate choice in being in control of myself and what happens to me.
Isn't that freedom, after all? To be in complete control of what happens to you?
- JK wrote:
It would seem that the goal should be to totally let go and feel what can happen instead of working only toward what you can reasonably expect to happen - that of which will fall exactly within your realm of limitations and of what makes it for your relationship to work.
He knows what limits I have. I have explicitly told him that I am needle phobic and that it is a hard limit (One that I would not let anyone go past). He told me that if I submit to him, he will use them on me at some point.
Now, I had a choice. I am severely phobic. To the point of passing out. My choice was to submit or not. I chose to submit. I trust Argentium to bring me through that fear and pain and loathing to the other side. Implicitly.
Similarly, I refuse the type of humiliation that would tear away my hard won sense of feeling that I am worth something. I explained this to Argentium as well. He agreed that this would cause more harm than was worth trying to get me past, and that it would not be a part of our play. I submitted again.
The difference here is that, while both cause me extreme discomfort, there are underlying reasons that one can be pushed and one cannot.
I give myself over completely and am often a babbling idiot when Argentium plays with me. I am his toy to bend and shape and drive where he wishes. That is the long and short of it. I am not in control. I am completely free to respond and go where he wants. I don't see my restriction on humiliation as interfering with that, and I don't see it as restraining me from completely letting go.
That's not to say I don't revel in being his wench or his fucktoy or whatever he chooses to consider me at the time. These, for us, are not humiliating. They are erotic concepts. At least they are to me. they are empowering because they are not something that a woman is *supposed* to be. They are "taboo". This is opposed to degradation type humiliation. Being called a stupid cow is not something that I will consider ok.
- JKay wrote:
Seems that if you could do this that you might be able to find some new aves [sic] about yourself and your relationship to your Master that could be really exciting.
- JKay wrote:
I think a lot of what you are suggesting would depend on how well you know these people and how committed they are to each other, how well they are able to communicate with each other, and how close the really get to each other.
This, to my mind, is not healthy.
- JKay wrote:
What I am driving at is that what we see and what really is between two people can be difficult to see. And I would add that individually some of us tend to cloud what we are seeing by what we know only from what we understand or want to believe is going on.
- JKay wrote:
I am only suggesting that what you have seen in others may have worked and may have not. Perhaps the ones you know - you know that well.
For *me* it is not healthy no matter *what* level of care is taken. That's just the way it is.
- JKay wrote:
Hey, she is just discussing it. And other people read these postings so it isn't like you are only speaking to her. If you want that you can probably email her. I am sure she respects your views.
I've been there, I've done that, and I burnt the t-shirt to cinders.
Actually, this is getting long, so I'm going to split this into another post.....please read the rest before responding :)
