That Humiliation Thing Again V  (11/11/98)
	JKay wrote: I find that odd to some extent. Why do you choose not to get past some things? And why shouldn't every line be crossed? Lawless wrote: Why am I -not- surprised in the least to see that JKay just doesn't, can't, comprehend "honor", "oaths", "ethics" and "values"? JKay wrote: I am challenging her and the reasons as to why she feels the way she does. My questioning of her motives and sources for those motives have nothing to do with whether or not I can comprehend honor, oaths, ethics and values. Of what she has explained doesn't provide enough justification in my book. I simply am not buying it. Buy it, shmy it. You can do whatever you like with what I am telling you. Your belief or not does not change what the facts are. Perhaps you just see all slaves that don't live as you wish them to as wounded and needing to be healed, I don't know. The sad fact of the matter is, though, is that not all slaves *are* wounded and in need of healing. Some of us are perfectly healthy. Lawless wrote: She doesn't *want* to be an oathbreaker, perhaps. She probably takes *pride* in having a sense of honor - why in the name of Dog would she want to get past those things, and cross those lines? JKay wrote: Why the hell not? Why continue to expend one's energy to hold on to such burdens? Why not let them go? Or why not try to work through them? 'Scuse me, JK, but I don't see my oaths to my Gods, my partners, or my friends as burdens. But that's just me. I don't see my oath to my Deities to provide health and support to others as a burden. I don't see my oath to Argentium to protect myself as a burden. I don't see my oaths to my friends and students as a burden. Nor do I see those things as items that need to be worked through. I honor them and keep to them, as Argentium *expects* me too. He would be sorely disappointed in me if I broke my oaths. JKay wrote: You're not getting it here. moonlight, like so many others, is only side stepping her problems and not really facing them. My "problem" will be taken care of when my divorce is made final, thank you. I don't have a "problem" with humiliation play, a "problem" with letting go for my Master, or a "problem" with anything that you seem to think is a "problem" for me. JKay wrote: Many of her comments are more reactions coming from whatever demons and fears she wishes to hold on to or that have a hold on her. In *YOUR* estimation, from online posts. I doubt that those people that know me personally would agree with you. Particularly when people online don't agree with you. JKay wrote: Either that or she isn't providing enough information that can be read as valid. What she initially provided was more a defense mechanism going off than a legitimate reason for not getting into humiliation. What is not valid about the statement that humiliation is not healthy for me because of my psyche? My feelings aren't valid? My emotions aren't valid? My choices aren't valid? There's a card in my friends Tarot deck that has a nice picture on it captioned by "There is no such thing as an invalid feeling." Think about that for a while before you blither on about not having legitimate reasons for something. JKay wrote: I find that to be misleading to others who are struggling with some deep issues about themselves. What is misleading about my saying something about *myself*? How does my evaluation of *myself* affect other slaves? JKay wrote: By not really getting into as to why she feels the way she does is like saying that it's ok not to face your fears and solve them, that it is better to let them win. Excuse me, but I have *never* said that one should ignore one's fears. I am a firm believer in facing them. We seem to have a difference of opinion on *WHAT* I fear, though.