A Question About Chloroform   (07/01/99)
	Apuleius wrote: I am *not* a Judoka, although I have dabbled with the martial arts and know a reasonable amount about them, and this will be my last posting on chokes. Especially since I don't think that they are all that great a thing to play with. But my pedantic streak couldn't resist one final set of answers; I won't post any more on the topic (promise!). You are, obviously, entitled to your opinion. And should apply them to your own life if that's what makes you comfortable. However...I let your *last* post pass, though I really thought twice about doing so. This one, however, I will not. Why? Because I don't consider your comments as being safe. Apuleius wrote: In answer to people's comments: no, it does not take several years of MA training to do a good Judo choke. You could easily learn it in a week or so. The idea that you can learn *anything* in martial arts in a week or so, and learn it well so that you are safe doing it, is utterly ludicrous. There is a reason that people practice for years and years. The techniques, to do them well and learn the proper positioning, are not just random motor skills. They take precision and training. Apuleius wrote: The problem is that in a conventional Judo class it would not be taught to you for a while, and the likelihood that you would have a lot of volunteers to practice on, or that a teacher would devote themselves to just teaching you how to choke someone unconscious and nothing else (especially once you told them why you wanted to do it) is pretty low. If there was a Judo expert who was very safety conscious sense, sane, and into BDSM that would do it. No, it wouldn't. If the person were skilled enough to teach you, they would most likely *know* better and tell you to take the class and work up to it. Any responsible person would. You cannot learn a single technique in isolation and expect to do it well or safely. Apuleius wrote: Whoever said that it does not KO you for long was right. You do not necessarily wake up as soon as the choke is released, though -- you can easily stay unconscious for between 10 seconds and a minute (or forever if the choke is held long enough after you are KO'd, but we won't talk about that). It varies a lot. It sounds to me like you've mostly seen cases where the person was not actually choked out. You will be weak and have a headache when you come out. 10 seconds to a minute is is a long time -- long enough to start tying someone up. But perhaps not long enough to appeal to a lot of people's fantasies. Having had quite a bit of experience, both with ligatures around the neck and with people blocking blood flow, I can say that I have never gotten back out of it to a headache or weakness. Not anything more than a good round of sex will give you. Having said that, I will also adamantly say that the effects will vary according to the person, just as their tolerance will, and the amount of risk that they are willing to take. This particular type of play *is* dangerous. It can kill, and do it easily. Some people can go far longer than a minute before they will pass out, though the pounding in the head can get quite strong from the blockage of the arteries. There is no way to tell, other than actually doing it, what a person's abilities are....and even those will vary according to a single person from one session to another. Apuleius wrote: Finally, Judo chokes have nothing to do with hypnosis, which would actually be a much better thing to play with, I think. Hypnosis is all mental; in And *this* statement is what I have the *most* problem with. Mucking about in someone's head is *very* chancy. It's not the simple thing that you make it out to be, and I would tell *anyone* that wants to play with hypnosis to do their homework and do it well. You can do severe damage by mucking about with people's brains. Life changing, life altering, life destroying things. Hypnosis is *just* as dangerous a toy to play with as breath play, blood play, and most edge playing. Apuleius wrote: the Judo choke you actually need to cut off the blood supply to the brain by exerting fairly considerable force in the proper places on the neck. You cannot do it with just your hand against a resisting opponent; it is done using either the whole arm around the neck or by pulling tight the collar of the other persons shirt or jacket around their throat in the correct manner. The "Vulcan nerve pinch" does not exist, folks! I beg to differ. My dom is *well* able to cut off the flow of blood or restrict it as he wishes, either with the use of his palm across the arteries or just his thumb and forefinger. It doesn't take *that* much pressure, nor do you need to apply the whole arm. Hell, he accidentally, well, maybe it's on purpose...you'd half to ask, can do this just when we are laying on the couch and he lets his arm fall across my neck when we are spooning. It's not severe, but it's enough to restrict it slightly. (The above *does* hinge on the fact that I generally don't struggle when he's doing it. :) If he had to pin me down he'd prolly have to use more than just his fingers.)