- Tobie wrote:
Maybe I don't have the ability to suspend disbelief that far. If I felt for more than an irrational flash of thought that my partner was doing something to that had a potential to kill me, it's would be over. As in serious choking, heavy blood play, terror scenes. That sort of thing. Maybe I've been too close to death too many times for it to hold any kind of mystic magic, or morbid curiosity. There would be ways that my partner could convince me through fear to comply with what ever he wanted ( if I wasn't running to get there ahead of him ) Fear of not getting something perhaps?
From my perspective, there are a couple of different issues here.
First, edge play is different for everyone. What I posted about today...that was closer to the edge than I think I've ever been. It played with my fear of failure..my fear of abandonment...the rage that's kept locked deep inside where I don't want to go...
Choking and heavy blood play, that are heavy edge play to you are not that big a deal to me...this is what I mean by edge play being very personal. You have to define your edges for yourself.
What didn't get mentioned in the post was the years of talking, discussing, flirting, and hosts of other things that Tiger and I have talked about. He knows me as well as I know myself. And I still come up with things that surprise me. To skirt the edge safely (though not without risk), he had to know exactly where the lines were. And he walked on quite a few of them. Not the least of which was the fact that I *need* to feel responses from the person I am playing with. When he was flogging me, it was like there was a wall there.
Which was exactly what he had to do to bring out the emotions he wanted. He knew it. I knew it later. I just didn't see what was going on at the time.
Second, for some of us, death isn't a factor. Because of my spiritual beliefs, I know that I will not die until it is my time. I know that I will return to life as another person. Death is one more gateway that we pass through... no better or worse than any other one. Do I want to die? Not particularly. Am I fascinated by death? Nope.
- Tobie wrote:
"I'll *never* whip you again if you don't do X."
This is an ineffective argument with me, so it wouldn't work. I know it would with some people...but I know what he likes. And to say "I won't do X" will hurt him as much as it would deprive me. :)
And Tiger, in true dominant fashion, likes to have his way.
- Tobie wrote:
My trust can be too blinding at times, but once it's broken, it takes forever to get that questioning edge gone again.
I think that most people are that way, for what it's worth. Tiger and I both realize that he could break that trust. And he and I both will have to live with the consequences if that happens. He's seen it happen before. I've lived through it. It's a risk that needs to be evaluated like any other safety concern. I won't deny that it could happen.
- Tobie wrote:
If he held a sharp knife to my thigh and said: "I'm going to scar you for life" the effect would be radically different than if that knife were held to my face and the same words spoken. One would be highly erotic, one would set a distrust that may never fade. If held to my thigh, he'd better follow through with it, if to my face, I'd kill him if he did follow through.
Ah, but there's the catch. One has to know which is which and has to be able to find some place between erotic and trust-breaking. I think that it's much more likely that an established relationship can survive skirting closer to the trust-breaking edge than a newer one can. In fact, it may require an established relationship to push some things.
I would not have let someone that I'd only known for a year or two do what Tiger did. Ever.
- Tobie wrote:
When I give my trust it has a clause in it, you will value me, as I value you. To *me* no one who valued me would do many of the things that we bdsm folks do to each other. I'm not saying THEY aren't valued, I'm saying it's something I just cannot grasp.
Here's another one that will throw you.
What Tiger did to me *showed* me that he cared and valued me. He cared enough to wind me up, break me, and then put me back together.
That last part is the key. There was no lasting damage, no matter what my mind *knew* at the time.
The part that I wrote about taking five more strokes....that was the putting me back together part. He pushed me and pushed me until I was convinced that I couldn't do anything right. Just to watch the torment.
And then he showed me that I could do something right.
I have no doubt that we would have kept up doing that until I *DID* do exactly as he said. Because once you reach the point that I was at....he *couldn't* stop. Or he would have broken Rule #1...and so would I for having allowed it.
He *means* it when he tells me that I am not to allow anyone to harm me...including himself. If he hadn't pushed me into asking for more...if he hadn't been set on making me ask again and again until I *did* take five more strokes....
Well...there would have been a lot of harm done. That's what edge play is. Taking those chances.
- Tobie wrote:
I simply can't fathom enjoying seeing absolute life terror on the face of someone loved and cared for. I can't fathom trusting someone ever again that put that look there.
I would hazard a guess that you are not a sadist. I'm not sure that *I* understand it. But I know that he enjoyed the whole thing.
And I know that he had every intention of repairing whatever he put me through.
'Nother mind bender for you... There's a part of me, somewhere deep inside....that is overjoyed that he did it. That thoroughly enjoyed it. That loved every minute of it...just as much as he did.
Why? Because I am his. To do with what he pleases. And he does. And that makes me immensely happy. He can put me through hell...and arguably did, when you understand my mental processes....and that is fine.
Because I trust him to bring me out the other side. Perhaps changed from when I started....but still a whole person.
More often a better person than I was...because I realize more about myself every time it happens. People are not all made from good and nice. There's some pretty gross shit in all of us. And that part...well..we try to ignore it.
But it needs to come out, too, sometimes.
- Tobie wrote:
How do you folks that do this type of play, make it make sense after?
The thing is, things don't really stop making sense. Neither one of us was being "out of character" for ourselves. He was being him. I was being me. We were just...Hmmm... I don't know how to explain it.
Or maybe I do. Trust. It really does boil down to that.
- Tobie wrote How can you keep trusting the person that you were sure just
last night, was going to kill you?
Because I realize that there is bad in everyone. Anyone could be a homicidal maniac given the right incentive. We risk that every day of our lives. We could be killed driving down the highway. Hit by a bus. Struck by a stray bullet.
Is edge play *really* all that much more dangerous that what many of us do in our day to day lives, most often without thinking?
You, Tobie, train or have trained what most would consider wild animals. You risked your life when you did it. With some of them, I'm sure, one wrong move could have been *it*.
Some people sky dive. Some people bungee jump. Some people do edge play. :)
I don't think, really, that Tiger would intentionally kill me. He is *capable* of it when pushed to an extreme. So am I. That underlies everything that happened. Even when my irrational hind brain was in charge...some part of me knew that he was *not* going to kill me...and trust wasn't broken.
Maybe it's just that I don't question that he always has my best interests at heart. Maybe I'm just a fool. Who knows?
What I *can* say is this. I slept better that night, with him there beside me, than I'd slept in months. With nary a thought of him rolling over in the middle of the night with murderous thoughts.
Thoughts of causing mayhem, yes. :)
