Tolerance II   (01/24/03)
	Kevan wrote: I did not use the term SSC in this context and you are trying to twist my words or you are totally missing the point or just not seeing it. Which one I am not sure. The point I was making was newbies don't know what is allowed or not allowed behaviour. In the particular case I was referring too we had a repeat offender. This individual had molested 30 plus subs. The community banded together and had said individual banned from a number of events. If someone, by the age of 18-21 hasn't figured out that it is not ok for someone to walk up and touch them *REGARDLESS* of where they are, whether they are kinky or vanilla, het, bi, or straight there are larger issues for them to deal with than being a newbie to the scene. Similarly, if they are over the age of 18-21 and haven't learned that it is not ok to walk up and start groping someone, again there are larger issues here that need to be dealt with. Being kinky, being a newbie, being clueless does not suddenly make it ok to engage in that type of behavior. It's got nothing to do at all with the scene or the community. Kevan wrote: I also somewhat agree with your last statement about interaction with strangers. But in a number of cases in talking with the victims of the predator I talked about. The newbies had online experience only. If you ever had been in some of the chat rooms, I am sure you would know what I am talking about. It is a fantasy world where Tops can grab, grope or do whatever they want to subs/slaves. I have been in the chat rooms. I've spent the better part of the time I've been kinky online. My first exposure to the scene was through friends I made online. It is no more ok for some random stranger to virtually grope someone than it is for someone to do it in a real life venue. No means no, regardless of the venue. Kevan wrote: The problem is that some of them don't realize it as they only have the online experience as a background. I know it sounds dumb, but it is a fact. Why people do what they do is also another mystery to me when it comes to not listening to the warning signs. I don't even think the shrinks can answer that one. LOL Then it is our job to educate them. Not protect them. Educate. Kevan wrote: I am not offended. But when you take 2 parts from 2 different paragraphs and blend them and make it sound like my words and then jump off with your thoughts. I choose to intersperse my comments directly with the points I'm addressing. Some I answer, some I don't. I'm not trying to blend anything. I find the conversation easier to follow. Kevan wrote: It then just sounds like you are trying to pick a fight or something else. What exactly I am not sure. No, I'm commenting on what people have written. I was under the impression that this was a discussion list, and that multiple points of view were welcomed here. Kevan wrote: WIITWD I am not familiar with that abbreviation so I cant comment, but would be more than happy if you would let me know what it means. What It Is That We Do. Kevan wrote: I whole-heartedly agree with you on this one. The sad fact is some don't. and because they don't this gives some predator the right to molest and maul them??? Personal opinion I don't think so. No, it does not. But people need to stop turning off their brains, get their heads out of fantasies like Story of O, and deal with reality. Setting up a date to play is no different than setting up a normal date. Going to a munch is no different than going to a party. You can have predators all around you in your everyday life just as easily as you can at a kinked event. If these newbies manage to interact with others in social settings outside of the scene, they should certainly be able to interact in social settings within the scene. Kevan wrote: Yes I can see what you are saying and agree with you that it should happen. The sad part is that it doesn't sometimes. You know what? I'm all for educating newbies. But not at the cost of treating every last one of them like mindless fluffs that need to be wrapped in cotton balls because they are so fragile. You keep talking about new submissives and predatory doms. What about new doms and predatory subs? There are just as many of those out there. Don't *they* need to be protected to? Or is it just the subs that are helpless? Kevan wrote: But like the twit with the funky paddle (glass glued to it) there are exceptions to the rule. Twit with the funky paddle wasn't a predator. He falls into the "idiot" category. Idiots are educatable. Predators are not. Kevan wrote: Unfortunately there are some that do not wish to appear like they are not all knowing. Now you have a consensual scene that is bound to become unSafe and quite possibly not to Sane. By the time consent is withdrawn it is quite possibly too late. It may sound ridiculous but it does happen. Who determines when a scene becomes "unsafe" or "not sane?" You? Me? The people who may be watching? The couple themselves? And what activities fall into the "unsafe" and "not sane" categories so that we know what to look for? How do we police, or protect if you prefer, someone who's playing in public when we don't know what their definition of "safe" and "sane" is? I can guarantee you that I consider some things "unsafe" and/or "not sane" that are fairly common within the leather community. And I can guarantee you that some of the things that I enjoy would, and certainly have, been called "unsafe" and "not sane" by outsiders...when they were neither. Kevan wrote: I really hate to correct you Of course you don't hate it. If you did, you wouldn't do it. >Your first 2 sentences in this paragraph insinuate that I wouldn't know and how much experience you have. Its not a question it is a statement. Perhaps not what you meant to say but it is how it was read. No, they're a frame of reference for how long I've been playing, not a call to put forth my expertise to stop a conversation or an attempt to stifle comments on what I think. Kevan wrote: If everybody agreed on everything it would be a very boring world indeed :o) I do hope that we get to side down at a munch, over a beer/coffee or playparty and talk more. Some of my best friendships have come out of disagreement :o) Unfortunately, that's not likely. It's a two day drive to get to your munches for me, since I'm in Kansas City. You may or may not have already met my partner who lives up there.